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Bert - Tue 28 Feb 2017 10:46:34 #0


Not a lot to say/ask most days. Try to stay out of trouble by keeping my mouth shut, eyes & ears open, this post will probably ruin that.... My unheated shop has been pretty much idle most of this long wet/snowy, cold (by Western OR standards) winter so there hasn't been much to talk/ask about... I mostly lurk anyway. But if going to F-Book would make your life easier Darrell, I'd say go for it...

Guess you could say I am more of a consumer than a producer here... I do enjoy the personal posts, especially Chuck's Life Stories, and reading what folks are doing or is going on in their lives and other parts of the country... And this group has never failed to give an answer or solution to a blacksmithing or welding question/problem I'm having. Need to thank Mills for his answer to my 'tree bark' Q awhile back and post a pic or two of the results...

However, I would have to stop even lurking though as I have sworn a personal oath to never use FB (never even logged on) and support a liberal pin-head like Zuckerberg in any way, shape or form.... Don't use Google either for the same reason(s)... Moved out of the Bay Area in 1977 for Several Political/Social Reasons... Just didn't figure on so many of that same political/social ilk moving North too or home growing them and taking over here too... I rationalize using Microsoft products by telling myself their corporate/social objectives are based purely on financial greed (That, I understand) now that Gates has moved on but there are an awful lot of Bay Area and East Coast transplants working there... Look at the political/social mess Seattle is now too... Would sell out and move to the middle of Wyoming in a flash if I could blast my wife out of her nest of 35 years and 20 year business... But I digress...


Darrell - Tue 28 Feb 2017 13:02:51 #0


Keeping this site open doesn't take up a lot of work for me.
If it is being used I don't mind. If it is not being used it would be a waste of time.
I don't mind keeping this site open if it has any use.
It gives me something to do with my time. And I enjoy being useful.
If people are reading that is fine but it helps to know it is being used by the posts.

Chuck - Tue 28 Feb 2017 18:49:24 #0

On the same team.

BERT glad to hear from you. I like to hear from another grumpy ole fart once in a while.
We all like to hear from each other every now and then.
Broke an ear off my Chicago Tools drill press.
It had been brazed once before and broke close to the weld.
The piece I broke is the clamp for the table. Three inch-plus column.
I flat don't want to buy another big drill press.
Damn wind blew my Dish Network out of whack.
Take care .

Bert - Tue 28 Feb 2017 21:08:49 #0

Grumpy Old Farts...

Gonna be 69 come September, not looking forward to it... But do enjoy folks of my general vintage who share my values and behavioral standards... #1 of which is how do I solve this problem myself???

SO, Come on Chuck (can I maybe call you Sandpile...? Closest I ever got to rodeo or being a Real Cowboy was when my cuz and I decided we were gonna be Bull Riders at about 8, but then our gramma took (didn't know she had such a shine for Cowboys..!) us to a rodeo in Moab, UT and we watched a bucked-off guy get drug around the ring getting his head smacked on the coral poles and decided OTHERWISE)... You are a blacksmith, can you re-forge a replacement part (or find a replacement part on Ebay or C's-list???)... After all, we are supposed to be the Cheapest People in the world and our advantage over Every Other Tradesman in the World is WE CAN MAKE OUR OWN TOOLS (Their's Too)...! Need to take Pride in Something...!


Darrell - Tue 28 Feb 2017 23:28:55 #0


I brazed the table on a jig saw by putting the whole table in the forge
and slowly bringing the temperature up with the two pieces wired together
until the brass and flux melted and ran into the joint and then let it cool down.

Joe Rollings - Wed 01 Mar 2017 10:50:26 #0

drill press

Chuck, if they still make that model, you might be able to buy the part. Is it a HF Chicago Electric? They have parts listings in the owners manuals, and you can look them up on line. Here is an example.

Also, if you had some heavy pipe that was a tad undersize to make it from, or other material, I could turn you a new clamp on the lathe. I also have one that somebody made a new clamp from opposing chunks of angle iron.....Joe

Mike B - Wed 01 Mar 2017 19:51:16 #0

I had an ear break off the stop nut on my flypress (a cast iron piece threaded on the inside, and split on one side with a clamp screw). I forged a piece of steel that was bent 90 degrees at one end and drilled for the clamp screw. The rest of the piece wraps partway around the body of the nut; I secured it with short cap screws tapped into the body. Seems to work okay.

Loren T - Wed 01 Mar 2017 20:39:05 #0

Cast Iron Welding

In the 80's I had a customer,Wayne, who at the age of 83 was world renowned as a Cord, Auburn, and Duesenberg mechanic. They had Lycoming engines as Lycoming himself was a major stockholder in the company. Wayne got an engine in that had thrown a rod and ruined the side panel of the block, which was flat. He machined an opening large enough to eliminate any cracks is the remaining casting, then machined a piece of sheet cast iron to fit it, with a v-groove all the way around. We built a quick and dirty oven with tin and ceramic wool using a propane forge burner. When the temperature reached 350 degrees per a temp stick, we placed the sheet in place with magnets and I welded it using nickel rod.I welded a little, peened it, repeated until it was done. Once it was cooled and sanded, you couldn't even tell. The mistake most people make is using steel to fill a hole, or attach to. It has a different expansion value than cast iron and so will crack the weld. Wayne said that if we could get the word out, we would have more work than we could handle. Shortly after this, his wife died and he moved from Arizona to Washington state.

Tom C - Wed 01 Mar 2017 21:30:33 #0

Cord, Auburn, Duesenberg Museum

Louise & I were coming back from a trip to Minnesota in 2000 & stopped in Auburn Indiana to see the Cord, Auburn, Duesenberg Museum. We figured we'd be there an hour or so. Well, 4 hours later we had seen most of the exhibits but we had to leave. If you're ever in that neck of the woods, I highly recommend stopping.It's in the building designed for the company & is a beautiful example of '20s Art Deco architecture.

On another note: anyone hear how Ellen is doing?

Tom C

Chuck - Thu 02 Mar 2017 13:06:35 #0

Drill press

This drill press probably predates HF.
The drill press is a Chicago Power Tools. Manufactured in Taiwan.
Model --A1-1258-2
chuck capacity-5/8"
The broken ear on the clamp is close to where it had been brazed, to fix a previous break---Son in law was trying to use it like a 'Screw Press'.
The clamp is built into the height/leveling of the table(whole business).

I can fab a clamp and table but the ease of adjustment and leveling would be lost.
If anyone sees such varmint. I would like to hear about it. Everything else on this drill press still works fine.
If I was a better welder, I would try stick welding after a 400 degree pre-heat.

The wind is at it again steady 25 and still gaining speed.

ELLEN--I have not heard from her in quite sometime. Good gal hope she is faring some better than she did last fall and winter. God Bless

It is dry.
I have the rows pulled/pre-watered for some of the onions.

Joe Rollings - Thu 02 Mar 2017 15:12:12 #0

Welding cast iron

I have done a few parts that came out well, but the first one was a mess. Seems like that nickle rod burns at a LOT lower temperature, and I struck an arc and turned a stove handle into a paper weight in about 4 seconds....Joe

Tom C - Thu 02 Mar 2017 18:35:50 #0

Nickel rod

Also, the flux coating is electrically conductive so don't put a fresh one in the holder barehanded when sitting on a metal staircase that you're working on. Found out the amusing (now) way.

Tom C

Bert - Fri 03 Mar 2017 10:26:44 #0

Welding Cast

Chuck, when I was taking welding at the local community college one of the instructors had a pile of cast things people had brought him to fix. He used the parts for demo's and teaching... I tried the nickel rods on an old sheep herder stove I bought for elk hunting and just made a mess... If you can get the table off you might try the local comm. coll. if you've got one w/ a welding program close..

There's also a bunch of video's on youtube: Welding Cast Iron search... Those might help ya...


brian robertson - Fri 03 Mar 2017 16:34:57 #0

looking for 15n20

does anyone have bandsaw blade pieces (15n20) to sell?

Chuck - Fri 03 Mar 2017 17:47:04 #0

Drill Press

BERT--JOE-- I can weld 7018 pretty well but am not going to try this nickel/cast.
It is the only part in the country ---even if it is broke. GRIN.
I might JB Weld it.
Just about all my ole buddies that could weld anything--have passed or they don't even know their own kids.--That is sad.

Damn wind is blowing to beat hell.

I want to plant our onions. The sand is moving too much. I have it wet right now. Probably will get them in the ground tomorrow---Some of them.
Son-in-law to be--killed 15 cotton-tails two weeks ago--that is going to help.

TOM C.- How is your car re-do coming along.

Chuck - Fri 03 Mar 2017 17:53:56 #0

Forging press

ALEX-- I meant to ask your if you forging press is fast enough to forge weld with?
My elbow is giving me fits. I have a pretty nice junk pile for building a press.
I need a valve control and some power. My pump at full speed is a 17GPM. I should not need but about 7GPM.
I need a 12" stroke cylinder.
Tell the Cordovas hi.

Alex Ivey - Fri 03 Mar 2017 20:24:00 #0

hydraulic press and mokume

Chuck, I have not used the press for pattern weld steel but a fellow NMABA member has done some and seems to do very well. I have done some mokume from stacks of quarters just recently and it works great on them. I'm posting a photo of two billets and a dished piece all from 16 quarters each. The smaller thicker one's ladder pattern is done by filing 4 groves about 3/16 deep with a round file then forging back to flat. The larger one is filed at a slant with holes drilled in between to show up as raindrops. Patterns don't show up very good in the photos. I just learned this from a blacksmith friend from Minnesota Clifford Larson who was down visiting with me.

Joe Cordova has been somewhat down for a while but doing much better now and Kay is doing well. I was at his place yesterday. I'm going to work with him on making up some mokume for the guard and pommel on a knife he's making.

Joe Rollings - Fri 03 Mar 2017 22:24:11 #0

mokume and other stuff

Dynamite stuff there, Alex!

I know one guy with a mill who might have blades that are worn out, if woodworking blades are made of the right stuff, Brian. I'll email him tonight.

Chuck, you prob'ly want to run that pump below standard RPM, 'cause I have a big one on a press and it needs a bigger motor or to be geared down. Quick as lightning, but not much power.

I think I'm going to gear it way down and add a HF gasoline engine to it. A 6.5 HP honda clone goes for about $100 and will last forever. HF really got that engine right. I have put a LOT of hours on them, but never worn one out.

I also thought I saw a 30 ton bottle jack at HF the last time I was there, and that would make a good press cylinder, although it would need a spring return since it is single acting.....Joe

Chuck - Sat 04 Mar 2017 16:30:32 #0

Hydraclic Pump

ALEX-- The mokume came out good--You dish it under your bottle press.

JOE- I don't really know what horse power it will take to run this pump. I had it on a pick-up that I pulled a hydraulic hay trailer with.

When I sold the trailer I kept the pump.
I have a hydraulic motor that was good 25 years ago Don't know what the operating RPMs are on the hydraulic mtr are.
It was a on weed eater mounted on a three point behind a 60 horse tractor. ---That was one rock throwing bitch, used combine straw beaters for weed whackers.
I have several of the blue small engines from HF. Best deal they have.
I also have a electric start B/S 16 or 18 horse power engine on a worn out riding lawn mower---Motor is good.
I could mount the B/S outside. My hoses are long enough for that.
No valves or controls, or cylinder--have to see about those.

Got some onions in the ground.

brucegodlesky - Sat 04 Mar 2017 19:45:09 #0


Brian, how much do you need??

Alex Ivey - Sat 04 Mar 2017 23:16:38 #0


Chuck, I formed it by sinking in a swage block.

Darrell, I don't do social media like facebook so I depend mostly on reading here to keep up with stuff in the blacksmithing world and posting only every now and then since what everybody else writes is more interesting to me than than what I have to say. Like the format and really appreciate what you do for us. LXIV,

brian robertson - Sun 05 Mar 2017 12:51:32 #0


bruce, probably about 50lbs. i have an idea for some pattern welded table legs to go with plate glass top. I just acquired some very good wrought iron that doesn't want to split below welding temps. I think it would make good contrast. Am i thinking right?

Darrell - Sun 05 Mar 2017 13:04:33 #0


It's not a problem keeping this site going.It just didn't seem to be being used for a while.
I also enjoy reading here every day. - Sun 05 Mar 2017 17:20:22 #0


Brian, let me see if I can get more. I prolly have 50# to give ya but I don't want to short myself.
How big of pices will work for ya?
This stuff welds to WI really well! I occasionally use it for hawk bits.

Tom C - Sun 05 Mar 2017 18:28:15 #0

Chuck, My car project is coming along, but not as fast as I'd hoped (of course). I'm trying to do as much under the dash installation while I have the body on the rotisserie; things like the windshield wiper upgrade & as much wiring as I can get done. I'm aiming to put the body back on the chassis later this month so I can put the front clip & doors on to take it to the painter guy.I still need to install the exhaust system & run brake & fuel lines before that can happen. Tell you what: restoring a car is expensive!

In other news; my friend Ken Winebrenner, a fellow metal mangler, passed away last fall & I've been helping his widow sort through his tools & equipment for an estate sale. Most of his blacksmith stuff has been disposed of or claimed by one of his heirs, but there are a lot of old esoteric vintage things left. He & I collected tons of stuff over the years from Dempsey Machinery Exchange in Richmond & Noel Dempsey is helping us sell it. So, if you're looking for, say, a Gorton vertical mill or a manual bar shear, check out The power hammer and Bliss fly press are gone so don't get excited when you see them mentioned. There are a couple of small London pattern anvils & 3 leg vises still.

It's never a dull moment around here, it seems.

Tom C

brucegodlesky - Sun 05 Mar 2017 22:18:50 #0


I came into a New hermes engraver recently. Anyone on here have one? It's really a small pantograph.Kinda neat ! Foolin' around today tryin' to make up some ID tags for the new hound.
Finally getting' some strength back after 2 bouts with the flu. Not ready to swing a hammer yet, but that's what the Fairbanks and press are for :-)
This epizutis really made me feel like an old man!!

brucegodlesky - Sun 05 Mar 2017 22:19:18 #0


Thanks Darrell!!

Joe Rollings - Mon 06 Mar 2017 13:57:50 #0

Band saw blades

Looks like my guy doesn't have anything right now, sorry....Joe

Chuck - Mon 06 Mar 2017 15:53:43 #0

Small Pantograph.

BRUCE-- Is this the same deal that some makers use to inlay shields on their knife handles? Trace around one shield and it etches a pattern for the other?
Inlaying shields perfectly is difficult by hand.

The fifty MPH winds are digging things up and blowing them a way.

Chuck - Mon 06 Mar 2017 16:00:58 #0


Glad to hear your still keeping on with your car.
It is expensive that stops a lot of folks after they have already spent more than they wanted to. If you can keep on with it, it will be worth a lot to just enjoy it through the years.

ELLEN--Just tap out a word or two. God loves you and so do we.

brucegodlesky - Mon 06 Mar 2017 21:38:27 #0

Sandpile, ya that's pretty similar to the cutlers pantograph but does not cut/removed much. I reckon you could outline the shape then cut by hand.
I played with it again today. Pretty minteresting piece of machinery!

John Odom - Tue 07 Mar 2017 10:29:01 #0

Hermes Evgraver

Nice, but expensive new,

Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Tue 07 Mar 2017 14:32:14 #0

New White House Fence Proposals

Get your bids in early and often! ;^)

Joe Rollings - Tue 07 Mar 2017 22:54:15 #0


If the past 20 years are any indication, better to turn the points inwards....Joe

bruce godlesky - Thu 09 Mar 2017 06:24:14 #0


Sandpile, I posted a picture of that engraver. I think I'm gonnahave fun with this :-)

plain ol Bill - Thu 09 Mar 2017 17:29:28 #0


Brian you can find some 15n20 at alpha knife supply. Kelly Cupples sells it also.

Chuck - Thu 09 Mar 2017 19:00:11 #0

Steel and Pantograph

KNIFE STEEL- ALDO BRUNO----Would be a good first choice. RAY KIRK would be a good place to look.

BRUCE--Looks like you made a good trade. Anything that causes us to get a little excited is good. Look up --Rick Menefee--Blanchard, OK. Knife maker deluxe, he puts shields on all his folding knives. Uses a double milling machine type deal--like a pantograph, just bigger and does the metal whittling.
Glad you found this Unhardened steel better look out when you find out what it can do.
JOE --I found out today that I am actually older than I thought. Played out to quick.

Chuck - Thu 09 Mar 2017 19:07:03 #0

Plain ole Bill

PLAIN OLE BILL---Meant to say hello.

BRIAN---- ALRO Steel suppliers would be good for fifty lbs. carbon not sure about 15N20. Quarter inch is the thinnest they will have in tool steel. ---Greg Clampton out of Tulsa is a damn good salesperson.

God bless All

Joe Rollings - Fri 10 Mar 2017 22:33:55 #0

unknown age.....Chuck

Seems that there is a felow in French Tract who married my oldest daughter and used to raise a lot of turkeys on his place there who can't quite nail down his age.

Doc got tired of taking chickens and turkeys for payment and refused to fill out the birth certificate when he was hatched.

He seems just as well off without knowing, though....Joe

brucegodlesky - Sun 12 Mar 2017 12:19:51 #0


Sandpile, I've seen the setup at Queen Cutlery that does the shield cutouts. Pretty neat deal there. They have all sorts of shield/emblem patterns. I bet I could figger out a cutting tool for my machine to do the same.

Joe Rollings - Wed 15 Mar 2017 10:30:53 #0

Pantograph patterns

You can make good ones by cutting them out with a jeweler's saw, then a bit of filing for precision.....Joe

bruce godlesky - Wed 15 Mar 2017 11:09:21 #0

good idea Joe! Thanks.
For all those folks snowed in.... it won't last for long:-)
I've never had this much snow in my 3 sided forge shop. Kinda looks lioke someone broke open a coupla down pillows and turnt the fan on hehehe

Buck Brown - Fri 17 Mar 2017 10:12:58 #0

Happy St. Patrick's Day to all!

Joe Rollings - Fri 17 Mar 2017 12:19:45 #0

Happy st. pat's day!

I don't own any green clothes, so every year I stop brushing my teeth on March 5th, and by the 17th, THEY are green...... :) ....Joe

Chuck - Sat 18 Mar 2017 21:44:11 #0

Belated best wishes to the Irish and the not so ir

I was going to say something several days ago. It seems that I am getting forgetful.
I hope everyone had a good week-end, stayed safe and sober if driving.

I have written two posts and deleted them.
God Bless Everyone

bruce godlesky - Thu 23 Mar 2017 06:48:30 #0


Finally back in the shop today after a coupla months off.
Welded up a billet from wrought, 15n20, 1080+ and 1095 for a customer. he wanted a pattern welded billet with part of the home farm in it . So I took a coupler off a gas well /sucker rod and worked it down. It wa svery high grade wrought. Should make for a nice pattern.
Felt good to feel the thump thump thump of the Fairbanks!!!

Buck Brown - Thu 23 Mar 2017 11:10:03 #0


Bruce....glad to hear you're back at it! I need to do the same. Haven't had a fire in the forge for some time now.

I'm wanting to make some small tools for the wood lathe. I have a bunch of garage door springs and thought they would work fine. The problem I have is I don't have a clue as to what the steel is and so until I find out I don't know how to heat treat it. Anybody know what the steel is or how to heat treat it?

bruce godlesky - Thu 23 Mar 2017 11:53:17 #0

Buck, most coil springs are either 5160 or one of the 10xx series. That small of profile (garage door spring) you can get by with taking them to non-magnetic, count to 10 then oil quench.
You could flatten a coupla pieces and take to several different temps , quench then brea to see how fine the grain is.

Buck Brown - Fri 24 Mar 2017 10:01:14 #0

Thanks Bruce! That's what I'll do. Then I'll know what is best for each application.

John Odom - Fri 24 Mar 2017 21:50:15 #0

A good day.

I got up at 7 and fiddled around the house a while and finally headed to town about 9:30.
While I was in town I stopped by a refractory contractor to learn about some of the newer products. I have been thinking about making a different propane forge because the cylindrical one I have is very limited and can effectively only handle linear forgings.
I showed the gentleman pictures of the bed and some other projects and explained that I was thinking about a differently shaped forge. He said, instead of talking about lets go out and look at some products. After discussing the merits and available sizes of each, I thanked him and said I would need prices on certain ones. He replied "You are eligible for the nice guy discount." and told the warehouse man "Open the big door and load his truck when he gets it in here." I was GIVEN a pickup load of 3000 degree and 2800 degree insulating panels and bricks both hard and soft. Plus mortar and coating in 3 gallon buckets.
I did not ask for a gift. I believe in miracles. I have enough refractory to build a new forge and to repair the one at The Southern Adventist University blacksmith club's shop.
If you read my personal post yesterday you know that My shop is packed and I have no room to store anything. I backed my truck up to the shop door and discovered 2 lower bays on my supplies shelving, each with only empty boxes! Each bay was 2' X 4'. I got all the refractory except the mortar buckets in those and stacked those buckets in a corner.
Now I have to design the forge! I want one that can be open on 3 sides. I have enough refractory to build a forge much larger than I can afford to heat so I need to carefully think out the design,
Then I went to BK on Amnicola for lunch and on to TVRM and the forge. They Were pressure washing 630 and doing brake inspections on passenger coaches.
At the forge I used the Clay Spencer tire hammer on on a piece of 1 1/4" round stainless steel bar. It did quickly what would have required days for me to do by hand.
Then I came home and rested until supper. We had the fake chicken soup. The manufacturer of the fake chicken was bought out and the formula changed. The old formulation tasted better.
After a short rest I went to the Southern Smiths meeting at SAU. We planned the repair of their forges. If we had had to buy the refractory for that it would have costs hundreds for that alone! The young fellows also did a piece of heavy forging for me. They can swing a sledge with much more authority than I. This particularly is not really power hammer friendly. I will finish the piece at the Choo Choo Forge power hammer.
The work clothes are in the washer, and as soon as I finish this I will get in the shower.
I am dead tired and bed will feel SO good!
This was a VERY good day!

Joe Rollings - Sat 25 Mar 2017 22:19:00 #0

congratulation, John

I, too believe in miracles, but always chuckle when one comes along. You see a miracle when somebody gives you a load of material, whereas somebody else would be fretting about who stole all of the stuff that was formerly in those now-empty boxes that were on the shelf.

In spite of the miracles that surround us, there is always an escape route for those who choose not to believe in them....Joe




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